Airport Charts

A

Andrew Williams

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Today 12:33 PM
Rafal, if you don;t want this in here, as not exactly online only (but online people may find info and ask questions about charts here), throw it into flight chat. :yes:

Firstly, where to get them? Is there one single place like fscharts.com or better to go to VACCs, like VACC Austria for Austrian related charts.

Secondly, from my understanding, you select the sid relevant to the first waypoint in your flightplan. (is that correct)

I'm parked at Rome, assigned rw34r and the first waypoint is TIBER
I look at chart
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and it shows Tiber 5A. But my flight is heading north, the SID takes me to the south :think:

So I select it anyway, and now my flight plan shows as this.....
rome_sid1.jpg

Which shows the same as the charts

rome_sid2.jpg

:?: :think: :?:

Surely this can't be right? Have to do a full circle over the airport, to leave on the way I was alreadyheading sat on the runway

Is this right, or what did I do wrong :?:
 
Andrew,

very good question, indeed :think: . Logically,it seems unreasonable to fly initially in an opposite direction.
However ... Every airport is different in terms of evironmental issues, hills, noise abatement etc. The are low airways to consider, too. Therefore local ATC designate SIDS (and STARS) which comply with these restrictions. SIDs are "initial" routes designed for the pilots so that ATC do not have to vector every aircraft the moment they are airborne. So ATC design SIDs in such a way that departure routes do not collide with one another or arrival routes and comply with local limitations. How they do it and publish on charts - is up to the ATC.

Your route is correct, you have not messed up. You will notice quite often that your SID will be aligned as a kind of a circle, at many airports. However, when the traffic is low, ATC is quite likely to tell you "Climb FL.... , direct TIBER" immediately after you depart, so you can skip all the intermediate waypoints. But when you fly on Unicom frequency (no ATC present) for safety of other aircraft alway perform the full SID. See GERGA 2L departure from EDDT or BEAVIS departure from LDDU. The same thing.

Interesting thing: all runways at LIRF have the same sids - TIMBER 5A for all runways. This is unusual: normally you'd have (e.g.) TIMBER XY for one runway, TIMBER XZ for another and so on. But as I said - it's up to ATC how they desigante theirs SIDs and STARs.

Keep up with good work, more questions welcome.

This topic indeed refers to flying online, as published procedures must be followed in this mode, unless instructed otherwise by ATC. It's staying here. ;)

:hi:
 
I fully agree with what Rafal wrote. :hug:
I would add only, that the vertical range of the radar (real live) has its limits. Often happens that the controller sees the aircraft on the scope just after crossing the appropriate altitude. Imagine an obstacle (building etc.) which is below the radar range, but it's placed on his route to the first flight plann point. SID allows the pilot to avoid this obstacle using appropriate vectors/turns/climb restrictions. Controller does not need to worry about the location of the aircraft. After cutting an altitude at which the image of the plane is displayed on the radar, controller will confirm "radar contact" or that you are "identified". Both phrases are used online. Once you are identified, controller can use direct vectoring, but not before you are the point on his scope. Of course we just play this situation online - unlike real live controllers, we have full radar coverage.
:pop:
 
Thanks for the link Torben.

And cheers for the explanation Rafal and Tomasz :clap:

I use to always just take off, then turn and head for the first point on the plan, but learning charts, and sids etc, to try to do it all correct and by the book 8)
 
Andrew,

you will see that flying by the book is much easier, just programme your FMC/FMS, LNAV autopilot button on once you over 3000 ft and off when establishing on ILS ... and no head scratching how to land :D

Flying is fun, isn't it ?

:hug:

BTW looks like I need to write another paper, this time, how to read charts :wonder:
 
Thank you, Tomasz, this should definitely help ... me to decide to spend more time flying, for the time being 8)
 
Thanks for the links above, but I need a 'Charts for dummies' guide :lol: something like....
charts.jpg

:LOL:

Which sid to select?
For yesterdays flight, there was two different routes posts.
SVD LASLI RISMA SABAK TIVOL
&
VEDAR UL997 SORPI

There is a Veda sid at Copenhagan, but what if I used the other route with the first waypoint being SVD. As there was no SVD sid, how am I to know which sid I should select in the FMC?
 
Andrew, let's start with, that first route is at least strange to me. Not because of point by point routing (sometimes it can be), but because of the first point. VOR Sveda (SVD) is used only for arrivals. I do not believe that this route has been accepted by ATC. If anything (non rnav), departure via Nora (NOA) can be accept, but SVD ? Hmm... :no: (omit that there is no STAR via TIVOL)
Second route is perfect and constructed universally for jet and prop aircraft. Remind that some departure procedures at Kastrup are divided for jet and propeller acft. ;)

CFMU:
FPL-ACH0201-IN
-B763/H-SRWXY/S
-EKCH2335
-N0466F350 VEDAR UL997 SORPI
-ENGM0046 ESGG
NO ERRORS
;)
 
EKCH divides arriving and departing traffic to reduce risc of conflicts. As Tomasz says, SVD is used for arrival and should under no circumstance be used (let alone approved by the ATC) as departure waypoint.
Until November 19th, the correct route out of EKCH for ENGM would be a NORA sid. After November 19 it is the VEDAR departure. NORA vor (NOA) has been decommissioned and is no longer in use, but you may request it for a while flying MSFS - not as real as it gets then.

VEDAR departures are for jets AND props - so no problems there :)

Please ask if you are uncertain on flying in Danish airspace and I'll be glad to help you.

Charts are found at: http://www.slv.dk/Dokumenter/dsweb/View/Collection-52

Torben
VATSIM controller C1 in Denmark
 
UUUPS, mea culpa then. :oops:

The flight plan starting with SVD is still published on Vroute as a valid plan, which I suggested blindly trusting the software - and that's where I got it from. I did not check it against the published procedures. Will punish myself by self-whipping immediately after publishing this post.

Anyway, I did notice the problem while trying to set up my FMC for departure right on the apron - so I decided to use an alternative, and I guess most pilots did.

Please don't tell the boss! ;)

:hi:
 
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