Departing from LOWW ... any ATC may explain?

R

Rafal Bardel

Users Local time
Today 8:18 PM
Hi,

my question is related to the procedures in use at LOWW. As it is my ACH hub, I often depart from this airport, at different times, and I thought I was well familliar with the airport but ... apparently not :( . Three days ago I was (and many other pilots, too) highly surprised, because all of us received clearance from TWR for (rwy 29) via Sollennau 2C departure, regardless of their first flight plan waypoints. My flight plan started with ABLOM, so I asked for ABLOM 3C, but still got SNU 3C.

It was 21:04 local time.

ATC explained thal local proedures required SNU 3C departures for all acft departing from rwy29 after 9 p.m.

OK, fair enough. But - I checked the info
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and ... found out that the noise abatement limitations (7.00-21.00) do not include the ABLOM 3C SID. What was the point in imposing the SNU 3C departure by TWR? I also checked NOTAMS for LOWW, but found nothing relevant. Maybe you have some information. :dizzy:

Well, luckily apart from TWR there was also LOWW_APP who gave vectors to reach my ABLOM wpt after departing via SNU 3C. What should I have done if there had been no-one? Vector myself? Reach Sollenneau and then fly direct to ABLOM? Or, prior to logging in, try to devise flight plans that would always begin at Sollenau for night flights? :p

I have also observed some irritation at other cockpits at LOWW, as all the pilots had to reshuffle their flight computer settings and all of them were surprised. This was an unpleasant situation for everyone, I guess for the ATC as well.

I agree that pilots should be prepared before the flight and be aware with the local procedures. And it is also true that we often fail to do so. The we get "straightened back" by ATC. But if this happens to a few pilots at the same time, something seems strange. :wonder:

The next issue, relevant to VATSIM only (I do not know about IVAO), is that at some airports, for example EPWA, some published standard routes are time-limited, due to noise abatment. If these rules were strictly obeyed, it would be extremely hard to fly without ATC present. Therefore they are not applicable at UNICOM. What about LOWW?

I'd be great if I could get some feedback from WIENN FIR controllers. :?: We're learning all the time ...

:hi:
 
Dear Rafal and all the other confused pilots here *g*!

The SNU departure is used after 21:00 local time by a few controllers who like the kick of the absolutely real procedures. Normally on VATSIM you do not get the SNU departure, but the expected departure for your first waypoint instead.

The exact information about the real procedures could be found in Eurocontrols EAD, but to be honest, we do not expect any pilot to be prepared in a way, which would include reading all the real info around (I do not know anything too) - therefore nobody will be angry if you ask what to do passing SNU when getting the SNU departure after 21:00.

The best way to fly the SNU departure is to follow the SID and after SNU DCT your first waypoint on your route. This procedure is just for fun for the controllers so that they have some differences in their workflow (on VATSIM of course - in reallife, this procedure reduces noice overhead Vienna *g*), if you have troubles flying it, ask the controller what to do :)

Cheers,
Bernhard.
 
HI Bernard,

thanks for the reply - I had no problem with the SNU departure, just reconfigured my FMC. But I checked - on the charts - ABLOM 3 C departure is OK for all times - and, according to the charts - does not need to be replaced by SNU. that's what the charts say.

the problem was with the trainee twr controller - he gave all pilots the SNU departure in clearance, no matter what plans they had, keeping us all confused.

I just wanted to know if I missed some info about my hub - it would be a shame not to know! :lol:

:hi:
 
Hi Rafal!

Actually you are right, ABLOM3C is also used during the night.

In case you get a clearance that is different from what you expected, the controller should give you clear instructions on how to proceed after the last waypoint. In case of noise abatement in Vienna this is normally done by adding "WAYPT next" to the clearance. E.g.: "cleared to LOWI, via SNU2C departure, SITNI next, ..."

These procedures also call for runway 29 only operations if the weather permits, which can be fun. At least that is why I use them sometimes ;).

Cheers
Clemens
 
Hi Clemens,

thanks for reply and explanation - well, the atc did explain that noise abatement procedure is in use. I was not given the next waypoint clearance initially, but I relied on APP who was present.

Thank you:)
 
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