Inflight reclearance

Pierre Chassang

Pierre Chassang

Users Local time
Today 2:51 AM
Hi all!

I've just flown ACH1477. (see my last PIREP)
Loadsheet gave 87990kg fuel. for 329 pax and 20000kg cargo (ZFW 246621kg). :S
A strong headwind burnt much fuel and I decided to made a Decision Point at DOTEL to Kiev airport.
So I landed to UKBB to refuel then took off again to EDDK my initial destination. :roll:

FSFK has stopped the flight at UKBB and didn't take the second leg in account. D-APRE was landed at EDDK. :(
What can I do to avoid this kind of situation :?:

Thanks for help
Pierre
 
Very interesting question, Pierre. As I had the VA website open in my browser all day long (pretending to work), I "spied" on your flight ;)
Seen you land in Kiev and thought you might have a little fuel problem :lol:
After that I was very interested in seeing your flight report, wondering what it would show. It's probably not what you expected. Neither did I :S

Question: did you set the parking brakes when refueling? I guess not, or FSFK wouldn't have continued to record the flight....
:wonder:
Looks like another question for Thomas Molitor.
 
I know once you land with FSP, that is flight over, and you have to start a new flight from the place you landed.

If FSFK is not like this, maybe try in the options that flight has ended when 'park brake is set and engine is turned off' then you can still set park brake at mid point, and leave engine running, FSFK wont end, and you 'may' be able to take off and continue flight.

This is just guessing though, and don't know if it would actually work.
 
Just done a little test flight, and it seems to work similar to fsp.

I have noticed, the block time will be a silly high value compared to the flight time, as the flight time stops once you make your first landing, the block time stops when you turn off engine. So after landing the first flight, FSFK thinks (all during the second part of the flight) that you are taxiing to the gate.

I have a 16 min flight time, (both flights were around same time) but a 43min block time. Also the final fuel value will be when the engine is stopped, so also will show a completely incorrect total.

I figure the only thing to so is the same as FSP, which is to make the flight until the refuel, park brake, so fsfk saves flight, then start fsfk once again to record the second part of the flight.

What I don't know is how you would report both parts of the flight to the pirep system here :S
 
Andrew Williams said:
after landing the first flight, FSFK thinks (all during the second part of the flight) that you are taxiing to the gate.
Click to expand...
Which is basically true.... it's just a speed taxi on a very high level :rofl:
I figure the only thing to so is the same as FSP, which is to make the flight until the refuel, park brake, so fsfk saves flight, then start fsfk once again to record the second part of the flight.
Click to expand...
Not a bad solution, I think. It's actually two flights, so there's nothing wrong if your pireps show two flights, plus you get even more points for the additional landing and take-off ;)
What I don't know is how you would report both parts of the flight to the pirep system here :S
Click to expand...
Shouldn't be a problem if you book a charter flight for the second part, before reporting it, and use that charter flight number with Flightkeeper.
 
Hi men!

Thanks for your investigations.

In fact, when I saw I have to refuel, I've changed the "End of flight trigger" setting for avoid to stop the flight when setting parking brake.
I think that's my mistake. :(
Andrew is right, FSFK considers the second flight as a "loooong fast and high taxi time". :S
The solution he brings seems very interesting. Save the flight at refuel airport, then start a new flight for the second part from refuel to destination. :idea:

I think (if ever the case occurs again) I'll do that. :yes:
So all flight time will be kept in account with two seperates PIREPS. :p

You are really greats. 8)

Friendly Yours
Pierre ;)
 
Ok!

I just flown the bring back leg from UKBB to EDDK.
But, I had to use a charter aircraft (D-ACBE), not this one I flown the first leg (D-APRE). :S

So it seems not possible to perform a flight in two leg (in case of refuel) with the same aircraft because the second is Charter one using Charter aircraft only.

What do you think about :?:

Cheers
Pierre ;)
 
Hmmm. yes you have a good point there.

I also notice that you have 'killed' that plane for professional pilots as it now has no route of flight out of the airport you landed at.

Can't think of a work around for this :S

Maybe something like, if the reported flight is not landed at the booked destination, the report is accepted, but the plane does not actually move, then it is still available, or something like that.

Not sure, over to Peter :wonder:
 
Thanks for what you'll can do.

I think this will help some Air-Child Pilots

Cheers
Pierre ;)
 
Hello there!

No luck for me. For the third time, I had to divert because fuel less. :(
ACH1505 flightplan suggested 105081kg fuel from ZBAA to EDDK.
I used (for information) the Air-France B747-400 CF6-80C2B1F abacus, I found: 111000kg.
As Captain, I've checked and approved the loadsheet with Air-Child fuel weight. So it was my responsability, when saw it will be not enough, to ceate a decision point and diversion airport.
That's what I did, choosing DEREX as DP and ESSA as diversion airport. So I safely land the aircraft and passengers.

The previous evoked problem still there.
D-ANIE is locked at ESSA.

Please, Peter, could you see that. If you need help don't hesitate to contact me.

Friendly Yours
Pierre ;)

PS. Here is the Air-France abacus used by real Pilots.

http://www.toofiles.com/fr/oip/document ... gj7wa.html
 
Pierre, I just converted the plane manually from "scheduled" to "charter". You will now find it in the charter list and are able to book a flight back to EDDK.

I don't know if this could be a solution for this kind of situation. It can cause new problems, though. What if you "don't give a damn" about your original destination and fly the plane to Paris, instead? It would never get back in the regular fleet before someone takes it to Cologne. Or if someone sees it in the charter list before you book it? Then it may be in Bangkok the other day :lol:

This really needs to be thought through. No quick solution, I'm afraid.
For now the manual switching is ok for me. Just give me a short note when the aircraft is back in EDDK, so I can put it back to regular service ;) Thanks!

ps: your toofiles.com/... link is broken :(

pps: the problem with long distance flights and fuel calculation is definitely the aloft winds. We can not estimate them (at least I didn't find a reliable way, yet). Thus, all fuel calculations for long hauls have to be used with caution. Better to increase the pilot's extra fuel by some tons (if possible) and accept a heavier take-off, than to run out of fuel.
 
Andrew Williams said:
Maybe something like, if the reported flight is not landed at the booked destination, the report is accepted, but the plane does not actually move, then it is still available, or something like that.
Click to expand...

:hmm:
 
true, but if you changed it slightly to read....

if the reported flight is not landed at the booked destination, the report is accepted, but the plane moves to the destination airport, then it is still available,

then he can book a charter to the destination, and his plane will be waiting there for him for the scheduled flight back ;)
 
Hi :hi:

Too Files link is recovered.... :S

Ok Men, I'll fly a ESSA-EDDK next time and back when done. :yes:

Thanks to both Peter and Andrew.

Cheers
Pierre ;)

Ps. I love that VA !!!! :rofl:
 
Peter Schindler said:
pps: the problem with long distance flights and fuel calculation is definitely the aloft winds. We can not estimate them (at least I didn't find a reliable way, yet). Thus, all fuel calculations for long hauls have to be used with caution. Better to increase the pilot's extra fuel by some tons (if possible) and accept a heavier take-off, than to run out of fuel.
Click to expand...

Pierre, as I know that you are a FOC user too, I can send you the actual Air-Child shedule and flightplans, so you can check the route in FOC with the actual aloft winds.

Best Regards
Norbert
 
Hi Norbert,

It should be very gentle from you. Thanks by advance. :yes:

Friendly
Pierre ;)
 
Hi Dispatchers,

D-ANIE is back Home to EDDK Gate C4.

Thanks

Pierre ;)
 
Thank you, Pierre. ;)

For future incidents and accidents I made up the following scenario:
If a scheduled aircraft lands somewhere else than planned, it will be taken out of regular service immediately, and an automated booking from the alternate to the original destination will be made for the pilot who diverted the plane.
So you can go to "my bookings" and find that flight there. Instead of the normal briefing you will have a charter-like briefing. Once returned, the aircraft will be back to regular service again.
Basically that's just the thing we did manually in the case above, with the difference that it happens automatically and that the plane is reserved exclusively for you. However, if you don't report that pre-booked flight within the usual 3 days, the booking will be cancelled and the plane will be transfered to the original destination.

Does that make sense?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom